From the dopamine highs of Tinder to the terrifying lows of revenge porn, we talk about the ways technology is shaping (and warping) the search for companionship
Interesting mention of the manosphere, specifically hateful subreddits and the tender, throbbing boil. Through several years working in UK domestic violence services I moved from working with women to working with men, both victims and perpetrators. When you work on a free helpline all kinds of people ring up, which meant I got some fascinating insights into some really dark corners. Once I spoke to a Pick Up Artist who was definitely not disclosing his strategies publicly and had become somewhat disenchanted with the whole thing. He denied that what he did was ethically or morally questionable but couldn't account for why he wouldn't want a woman to know that he had used a PUA strategy on her.
There are definitely differences between how men and women experience and perpetrate abuse, or just emotional distress in general. In my experience men tended to resist the idea that they should experience any emotional upset whatsoever. If they were upset there was often an attitude that some external factor or person was at fault and needed to be fixed. Women tend to internalise their upsets and disappointments and accept romantic hurts as just part of their lot.
What a revelation—using dating apps to just meet people!!! Love your show notes—I always read them. Nancy, please post your LA stories—I'll still buy the book—and your hair is 🔥.
Sorry that this is really last episode’s topic: Is self plagiarism a problem because the publication you wrote for owns the rights to your article or is it just a problem regardless?
Also, I’m reading We Believe the Children: A Moral Panic in the 80s. It’s sort of true crime and especially good if you’ve read about the Sale Witch Trials.
Fun with words -- around 15:00 Nancy used the word "evansent" (not a word) and Sarah wondered if she meant "evanescent". But I think the word you really wanted was "nascent", which means something having recently come into existence.
Yes! -- publish "L.A. Stories" as a serial on Smoke 'Em. Love the Hefner story.
I had also read "Tinder Hearted" and enjoyed it. That's a subject you've covered more than once and it's always interesting to hear your sound discussion on a topic about which you have different views.
I no longer have the baseball book of essays I wanted to recommend and now I can't even figure out what it was; something I bought decades ago. But one of the essays it included is not an essay but a transcript of Vin Scully's broadcast of the final 3 outs of Sandy Koufax's perfect game in 1965. That broadcast/transcript is now rightly famous and can be found many places.
Hey chicks, you may have already covered this, but…Irma Vep on HBO. I’ve just finished the series and can’t stop thinking about it (yes cliche! But true). Very unique, beautiful, really smart. Really nice little bit on gender stuff/current thought trends on sexual assault, art, cinema, etc. Great acting and intriguing characters. I recommend and would love to hear what ya’ll think about it!! Also, from a couple years ago but sooooo fucking good: I May Destroy You. Very different but man, that Michaela Coel is something else!! Xoxo
Hey Nancy, I missed the request for baseball books but just in case Matt hasn’t pressed this one on you yet, you should read “Lords of the Realm” by John Helyar. It’s almost 30 years old but an indispensable account of the 1970s through the early 1990s, and funny as all hell.
Love reservation dogs stumbled upon it while working from home during lock down it’s unique and the kids are great! All the actors and the sets are amazing. Will be watching for Tava!
As far as the internet, I think it’s about consent ! I don’t want someone posting a pic of me anywhere without my consent. Watched that series this past weekend. What a disgusting human and humans that followed him.
Great pod learning about some great reads through both of you.
My husband and I met back in 2007 (the age of dinosaurs in Internet time) through match.com. We would not have met any other way. I used the same strategy as Sarah with Tinder - go in with no expectations, just try to meet people. That made a big difference.
Realizing how reductive even the longer self-descriptions on match and other sites - we're more than likes and dislikes - made me prioritize meeting in person. That Tinder has so much shorter entries makes me really sad. And that New York article was excellent - wouldn't have read it except for your link.
As for baseball books, have you read The Glory of their Times? It's excellent. Eight Men Out, about the Black Sox of 1919, is also worth the time. For Negro Leagues, Only the Ball was White. If you are in Kansas City MO the Negro Leagues museum is great, and right around the corner from Arthur Bryant's BBQ (my favorite BBQ place there). When I was a kid, I read and reread the Fireside Book of Baseball - a fantastic collection of anything and everything about baseball, such as Ring Lardner's baseball stories and Al Stump's article on Ty Cobb (a better read than the book he wrote IMO). My husband recommends John Rosengren's bio, Hank Greenberg The Hero of Heroes, which (rather surprisingly, based on the title) is critical of Greenberg, but gives a lot of context for baseball during Greenberg's career. Also worth adding - Greenberg played for the Detroit Tigers when they were owned by Henry Ford, noted anti-Semite.
I mentioned the "There Will Be Books" podcast in one of my babling comments, but in this episode (link below), they come up with their "Author Fantasy Baseball" teams. Around 18:50 they start talking about the field position picks (eg center fieldman: DAVID FOSTER WALLACE or George Plimpton 1st baseman: Mario Puzo or Norman Mailer; 2nd baseman: Terry Pratchett or Marlon James; shortstop: Nancy Mitford or David McCullough or William "Billy" Goldman; 3rd baseman: Ken Kesey or Gore Vidal...) https://open.spotify.com/episode/3hrzGltI5l8lVmtwYsw4Hx?si=Nd4kjwFxTPark_FhLHB7HA&utm_source=copy-link
Random thoughts after enjoying this podcast. 1) I've gotten thru the first 25 min of the first episode of the Netflix revenge porn documentary and I am not sure I can go on w it. (The cellphone request made me feel ill.) 2) My mother-in-law gave me a three Nancy Mitford novels this past Xmas. She said it was because I had gotten a Mitford novel for her many years ago (which I have no recollection of whatsoever!). 3) I've been meaning to ask you, Nancy, when did you mention Stacy Schiff's "The Witches"? I can't find it in any previous shownotes, but I'm guessing you recommend it? It's been on my nightstand for a couple years now (I get easily sidetracked).
Interesting mention of the manosphere, specifically hateful subreddits and the tender, throbbing boil. Through several years working in UK domestic violence services I moved from working with women to working with men, both victims and perpetrators. When you work on a free helpline all kinds of people ring up, which meant I got some fascinating insights into some really dark corners. Once I spoke to a Pick Up Artist who was definitely not disclosing his strategies publicly and had become somewhat disenchanted with the whole thing. He denied that what he did was ethically or morally questionable but couldn't account for why he wouldn't want a woman to know that he had used a PUA strategy on her.
There are definitely differences between how men and women experience and perpetrate abuse, or just emotional distress in general. In my experience men tended to resist the idea that they should experience any emotional upset whatsoever. If they were upset there was often an attitude that some external factor or person was at fault and needed to be fixed. Women tend to internalise their upsets and disappointments and accept romantic hurts as just part of their lot.
What a revelation—using dating apps to just meet people!!! Love your show notes—I always read them. Nancy, please post your LA stories—I'll still buy the book—and your hair is 🔥.
Sorry that this is really last episode’s topic: Is self plagiarism a problem because the publication you wrote for owns the rights to your article or is it just a problem regardless?
Also, I’m reading We Believe the Children: A Moral Panic in the 80s. It’s sort of true crime and especially good if you’ve read about the Sale Witch Trials.
Good show notes AGAIN!
Fun with words -- around 15:00 Nancy used the word "evansent" (not a word) and Sarah wondered if she meant "evanescent". But I think the word you really wanted was "nascent", which means something having recently come into existence.
Yes! -- publish "L.A. Stories" as a serial on Smoke 'Em. Love the Hefner story.
I had also read "Tinder Hearted" and enjoyed it. That's a subject you've covered more than once and it's always interesting to hear your sound discussion on a topic about which you have different views.
I no longer have the baseball book of essays I wanted to recommend and now I can't even figure out what it was; something I bought decades ago. But one of the essays it included is not an essay but a transcript of Vin Scully's broadcast of the final 3 outs of Sandy Koufax's perfect game in 1965. That broadcast/transcript is now rightly famous and can be found many places.
Miraculous goodness. ❤️
Hey chicks, you may have already covered this, but…Irma Vep on HBO. I’ve just finished the series and can’t stop thinking about it (yes cliche! But true). Very unique, beautiful, really smart. Really nice little bit on gender stuff/current thought trends on sexual assault, art, cinema, etc. Great acting and intriguing characters. I recommend and would love to hear what ya’ll think about it!! Also, from a couple years ago but sooooo fucking good: I May Destroy You. Very different but man, that Michaela Coel is something else!! Xoxo
Hey Nancy, I missed the request for baseball books but just in case Matt hasn’t pressed this one on you yet, you should read “Lords of the Realm” by John Helyar. It’s almost 30 years old but an indispensable account of the 1970s through the early 1990s, and funny as all hell.
Love reservation dogs stumbled upon it while working from home during lock down it’s unique and the kids are great! All the actors and the sets are amazing. Will be watching for Tava!
As far as the internet, I think it’s about consent ! I don’t want someone posting a pic of me anywhere without my consent. Watched that series this past weekend. What a disgusting human and humans that followed him.
Great pod learning about some great reads through both of you.
Have not even heard of! Will check out
My husband and I met back in 2007 (the age of dinosaurs in Internet time) through match.com. We would not have met any other way. I used the same strategy as Sarah with Tinder - go in with no expectations, just try to meet people. That made a big difference.
Realizing how reductive even the longer self-descriptions on match and other sites - we're more than likes and dislikes - made me prioritize meeting in person. That Tinder has so much shorter entries makes me really sad. And that New York article was excellent - wouldn't have read it except for your link.
As for baseball books, have you read The Glory of their Times? It's excellent. Eight Men Out, about the Black Sox of 1919, is also worth the time. For Negro Leagues, Only the Ball was White. If you are in Kansas City MO the Negro Leagues museum is great, and right around the corner from Arthur Bryant's BBQ (my favorite BBQ place there). When I was a kid, I read and reread the Fireside Book of Baseball - a fantastic collection of anything and everything about baseball, such as Ring Lardner's baseball stories and Al Stump's article on Ty Cobb (a better read than the book he wrote IMO). My husband recommends John Rosengren's bio, Hank Greenberg The Hero of Heroes, which (rather surprisingly, based on the title) is critical of Greenberg, but gives a lot of context for baseball during Greenberg's career. Also worth adding - Greenberg played for the Detroit Tigers when they were owned by Henry Ford, noted anti-Semite.
Thanks as usual for the great conversation!
Rommelmann and Hepola fill me with wonder ! And I want to hear more 👏👏
Great job ladies, keep it up👍
I mentioned the "There Will Be Books" podcast in one of my babling comments, but in this episode (link below), they come up with their "Author Fantasy Baseball" teams. Around 18:50 they start talking about the field position picks (eg center fieldman: DAVID FOSTER WALLACE or George Plimpton 1st baseman: Mario Puzo or Norman Mailer; 2nd baseman: Terry Pratchett or Marlon James; shortstop: Nancy Mitford or David McCullough or William "Billy" Goldman; 3rd baseman: Ken Kesey or Gore Vidal...) https://open.spotify.com/episode/3hrzGltI5l8lVmtwYsw4Hx?si=Nd4kjwFxTPark_FhLHB7HA&utm_source=copy-link
I love how you hacked Tinder to work for you, Sarah.
Random thoughts after enjoying this podcast. 1) I've gotten thru the first 25 min of the first episode of the Netflix revenge porn documentary and I am not sure I can go on w it. (The cellphone request made me feel ill.) 2) My mother-in-law gave me a three Nancy Mitford novels this past Xmas. She said it was because I had gotten a Mitford novel for her many years ago (which I have no recollection of whatsoever!). 3) I've been meaning to ask you, Nancy, when did you mention Stacy Schiff's "The Witches"? I can't find it in any previous shownotes, but I'm guessing you recommend it? It's been on my nightstand for a couple years now (I get easily sidetracked).