The new Marilyn biopic and an unauthorized biography of the "Kitchen Confidential" chef reveal our insatiable appetite for celebrity tragedy. What part is illumination, what part exploitation?
I always had a hard time watching Anthony Bourdain. My parents loved watching him, and I would tune in for some episodes, but he made me really uneasy. He seemed to be roiling underneath the surface, and at times it was just so close, right there in his eyes. My cousin found him really sexy, but he sort of scared me.
Aja Argento seems to be one of those people who tear through other people's lives like a wrecking ball.
JImmy Bennet at age 17. Before I had a son, I probably would have scoffed a little bit at the idea that a guy that age could be harmed by having sex with a beautiful older woman.
But once you truly know the heart and soul of a boy that age ( which you do if you're his mom!) you see how tender their hearts are, what a mix of boy and man they truly are.
He should have been having his first fumbling attempts of sex and love with another 17 year old. There is something so sweet about that discovery you share with someone else who is experiencing it along with you. I remember at 15, my 15 year old boyfriend seemed so male and sort of grown-up and sexy. And what a gift that was for him- a chance to be a boy and a man with someone who was a girl and a woman.
Aja took that from him. And I believe he felt the loss. Anthony Bourdain had seen it all and done it all- and his relationship with her gutted him. I doubt that she left Jimmy Bennet better than she found him.
A Marilyn Monroe tidbit: I have a dear friend who is friends with Arthur Miller's oldest son, and Marilyn Monroe was his step-mother. He told my friend that she was the most loving and nurturing person to him. She would play with him for hours and he adored her; she was a mother to him.
My wife does not like Elton John and I do not understand. My favorite song is I Guess That’s Why They Call it the Blues. “Rolling like thunder under the covers” totally piqued my interest when I was a kid. 😀
My family took a 5 week cross country camping trip when I was 12. We arrived in LA right after she died. My mother was a huge movie fan and it was all she was talking about.
I bought Yellow Brick Road when it was released and played it so much I wore out the grooves. My favorite part was the the first part with Funeral For A Friend running into Love Lies Bleeding. I could listen to that forever. My second favorite of his albums is Captain Fantastic (another one where every song is great).
I am already a subscriber so I can't add to the chances of Sara getting her hair done, but when it happens, we need a picture.
Streaming services are great, but there was nothing like the age of Vinyl
I have a locket that says Harmony from my best friend, shortly after we spent months listening to that album …she got it for me for my birthday… also saw Elton on that tour and he threw out yellow styrofoam bricks at the end on the show.
Good point about Marilyn. In fact, I meant to mention this is one of Gloria Steinem's points in her book. Ms. magazine ran a story about Marilyn called "The Woman Who Died Too Soon" that talked about how she might have been eased/comforted/empowered by women's liberation. The story spoke about her sexual abuse and mother's mental illness, two things that really weren't understood back then; in fact, many of Marilyn's early biographers disbelieved her stories of sexual abuse (which, admittedly, did change over the years). That magazine story elicited tons of feedback from women who'd had similar experiences in childhood, an early me-too moment. It's sad that Marilyn never got to see a culture she helped to liberate. -- SH
Tim Riggins! I had to check Taylor's. IMDB because I felt guilty funding him so attraction. And he was in 11th grade.
I met Eli Wallach because he was going to the same place as me for occupational therapy. I asked him a lot of questions about Marilyn. He said how smart she was. I also wanted to aak about Ewan McGregor. But no
It is crazy. But I think in the 1950s and 60s it was beautiful and dumb. But now one has yo be beautiful and smart. Which means beautiful women do not get sp pigeon hold. But alao puts more pressure on average women.
Like how the hottest Angelina Jolie in her prime women are nuclear physicist. And smoking hot but not so ethereally beautiful women are lawyers. And the merely beautiful are grocery clerks
Hey Sarah and Nancy, thank you for this revealing discussion/review of a movie and a book, which I heard on a long walk in a nice local park -- I'm going to take a hard pass on both of them. The movie just sounds too long (3 hours?) and way too tough to take -- there are just some things I don't need to see on the silver screen -- instead I will maybe look up a movie or three that Marilyn did and enjoy those.
I read "Kitchen Confidential" way back when it came out and thoroughly enjoyed it; will confess I didn't pay any attention to his career after that and was shocked at his untimely death. Instead of the upcoming biography, maybe I'll go back and reread the aforementioned book. And, yeah, the people involved in his life should certainly act with more grace than they apparently have so far. Gee whiz.
And, BTW, you gals can chat at the beginning of the podcast (or anytime at all, actually),) about whatever you like; that's all part of the charm. I like hearing about unexpected marching bands at 6:30am and all things like that. Thank you.
"Bloodlines" was really good -- might have to watch again.
re: the previously mentioned hotbox item "Five Decembers"-- wow, I'm just about 8 chapters in and I'm definitely hooked.
And the Show Notes -- well, everybody knows by now you have to look at the show notes! Especially those last two photos!
Another great episode!!💜 After listening to it, I decided that night to start watching "Blonde"...I got as far as the scene where MM goes to the clinic for her first abortion, then I went to bed. I don't know if I'll go back to finish it. It made me feel so awful, so awful for her, I don't know that I want to give the director the satisfaction of sitting thru the rest of the sadism (as if HE WOULD CARE, but that's how I feel). (I AM curious, though, about Chas Chaplin Jr and Edward G Robinson Jr--what the hell was THEIR problem, the entitled assholes?) I also don't know if I want to read the new Bourdaine tell-all by Leerhsen. I discovered Bourdain by his article, "Don't Eat Before Reading This", in the New Yorker Magazine in '99 (and it's stuck with me). I like THAT guy. I'm also in the middle of "The Definitive Oral Biography" and enjoying its pacing and collection of voices/anecdotes...That might be enough for me...
Totally agree with Sarah about Bourdain and addiction. When he died I attributed it to his active addiction. Even if it wasn’t directly related -- it was still related.
Another great episode! I enjoy the chit chat at the start. This podcast is a conversation, and the chat at the beginning, for me, suits that tone.
Like Mark, I won't be watching Blonde or reading the new Bourdain bio. They both sound like they're just too much for me at this point - the voyeuristic elements as well as the very sad endings.
I'd read a couple of articles criticizing the abortion scenes in Blonde. Isn't it common to feel ambivalent or sad about getting an abortion? I am sure I would feel that way, and a friend of mine who had one years ago still thinks about it - it was the right thing for her, and that's why she had it, but she told me it's hard not to wonder what might have been.
I may be looking at the wrong photo but when I googled Asia Argentina and busting my balls I got a bunch of her wearing a shirt of man doing what looks like a overhead tricep extension with a barbell. The t-shirt photo is in yellow? I know very little about her reputation so no idea why she’d be wearing this shirt either.
That sounds like the photo. Yes, it's a barbell but it evokes (to me, to Nancy at least) someone whose face is straining so hard he appears to be hanging. Perhaps that interpretation is wrong, but posted right after the NYT story -- it's simply bizarre. -- SH
Thank you for a great episode!
I always had a hard time watching Anthony Bourdain. My parents loved watching him, and I would tune in for some episodes, but he made me really uneasy. He seemed to be roiling underneath the surface, and at times it was just so close, right there in his eyes. My cousin found him really sexy, but he sort of scared me.
Aja Argento seems to be one of those people who tear through other people's lives like a wrecking ball.
JImmy Bennet at age 17. Before I had a son, I probably would have scoffed a little bit at the idea that a guy that age could be harmed by having sex with a beautiful older woman.
But once you truly know the heart and soul of a boy that age ( which you do if you're his mom!) you see how tender their hearts are, what a mix of boy and man they truly are.
He should have been having his first fumbling attempts of sex and love with another 17 year old. There is something so sweet about that discovery you share with someone else who is experiencing it along with you. I remember at 15, my 15 year old boyfriend seemed so male and sort of grown-up and sexy. And what a gift that was for him- a chance to be a boy and a man with someone who was a girl and a woman.
Aja took that from him. And I believe he felt the loss. Anthony Bourdain had seen it all and done it all- and his relationship with her gutted him. I doubt that she left Jimmy Bennet better than she found him.
A Marilyn Monroe tidbit: I have a dear friend who is friends with Arthur Miller's oldest son, and Marilyn Monroe was his step-mother. He told my friend that she was the most loving and nurturing person to him. She would play with him for hours and he adored her; she was a mother to him.
I love your podcast!
My wife does not like Elton John and I do not understand. My favorite song is I Guess That’s Why They Call it the Blues. “Rolling like thunder under the covers” totally piqued my interest when I was a kid. 😀
I loved this discussion, every part of it
My family took a 5 week cross country camping trip when I was 12. We arrived in LA right after she died. My mother was a huge movie fan and it was all she was talking about.
I bought Yellow Brick Road when it was released and played it so much I wore out the grooves. My favorite part was the the first part with Funeral For A Friend running into Love Lies Bleeding. I could listen to that forever. My second favorite of his albums is Captain Fantastic (another one where every song is great).
I am already a subscriber so I can't add to the chances of Sara getting her hair done, but when it happens, we need a picture.
Streaming services are great, but there was nothing like the age of Vinyl
Keep up the great work, you two are the best
I kinda like the chitchat. It's like the opening credits, where I get my coffee and settle in.
Goodbye Yellow Brick Road is still one of my favorite albums. Besides the cuts you mention, I also love "Harmony."
I love "Harmony" - NR
I have a locket that says Harmony from my best friend, shortly after we spent months listening to that album …she got it for me for my birthday… also saw Elton on that tour and he threw out yellow styrofoam bricks at the end on the show.
I agree: I like the "chit chat" and all the rest!
I kept thinking what if Marilyn had been born in a later era where women have more control over their sexuality and allure, power…
Kim K, Brittany and on and on… would she have been happier and would she have been respected … very sad
I loved the movie it was dreamlike some beautiful scenes and score. It made me angry…. Loved seeing Adrien Brody he’s much sexier than Bobby C?!
Elton said it all in goodbye Norma Jean.
They did have names Charlie Jr and Eddie jr. They said them and later Cass which Charlie went by… and when she opened the box it was from Cass…
Mental illness that seems to be a less focused area of Marilyn’s life until I saw this I didn’t know that about her mother I think it explains a lot.
Do platinum highlights Sarah they grow back easier…
Great episode!
Good point about Marilyn. In fact, I meant to mention this is one of Gloria Steinem's points in her book. Ms. magazine ran a story about Marilyn called "The Woman Who Died Too Soon" that talked about how she might have been eased/comforted/empowered by women's liberation. The story spoke about her sexual abuse and mother's mental illness, two things that really weren't understood back then; in fact, many of Marilyn's early biographers disbelieved her stories of sexual abuse (which, admittedly, did change over the years). That magazine story elicited tons of feedback from women who'd had similar experiences in childhood, an early me-too moment. It's sad that Marilyn never got to see a culture she helped to liberate. -- SH
Thanks Sarah much better stated than my comments, and yes ,what I was trying to say. I’ll have to read that GS book.
Tim Riggins! I had to check Taylor's. IMDB because I felt guilty funding him so attraction. And he was in 11th grade.
I met Eli Wallach because he was going to the same place as me for occupational therapy. I asked him a lot of questions about Marilyn. He said how smart she was. I also wanted to aak about Ewan McGregor. But no
It is crazy. But I think in the 1950s and 60s it was beautiful and dumb. But now one has yo be beautiful and smart. Which means beautiful women do not get sp pigeon hold. But alao puts more pressure on average women.
Like how the hottest Angelina Jolie in her prime women are nuclear physicist. And smoking hot but not so ethereally beautiful women are lawyers. And the merely beautiful are grocery clerks
Hey Sarah and Nancy, thank you for this revealing discussion/review of a movie and a book, which I heard on a long walk in a nice local park -- I'm going to take a hard pass on both of them. The movie just sounds too long (3 hours?) and way too tough to take -- there are just some things I don't need to see on the silver screen -- instead I will maybe look up a movie or three that Marilyn did and enjoy those.
I read "Kitchen Confidential" way back when it came out and thoroughly enjoyed it; will confess I didn't pay any attention to his career after that and was shocked at his untimely death. Instead of the upcoming biography, maybe I'll go back and reread the aforementioned book. And, yeah, the people involved in his life should certainly act with more grace than they apparently have so far. Gee whiz.
And, BTW, you gals can chat at the beginning of the podcast (or anytime at all, actually),) about whatever you like; that's all part of the charm. I like hearing about unexpected marching bands at 6:30am and all things like that. Thank you.
"Bloodlines" was really good -- might have to watch again.
re: the previously mentioned hotbox item "Five Decembers"-- wow, I'm just about 8 chapters in and I'm definitely hooked.
And the Show Notes -- well, everybody knows by now you have to look at the show notes! Especially those last two photos!
I care deeply about your hair and TV situations and respectfully disagree with your correspondent!
https://airmail.news/issues/2022-10-22/along-came-marilyn
This just popped up on Air Mail...letters by Arthur Miller about his marriage to Marilyn Monroe. Thought you'd enjoy!
Another great episode!!💜 After listening to it, I decided that night to start watching "Blonde"...I got as far as the scene where MM goes to the clinic for her first abortion, then I went to bed. I don't know if I'll go back to finish it. It made me feel so awful, so awful for her, I don't know that I want to give the director the satisfaction of sitting thru the rest of the sadism (as if HE WOULD CARE, but that's how I feel). (I AM curious, though, about Chas Chaplin Jr and Edward G Robinson Jr--what the hell was THEIR problem, the entitled assholes?) I also don't know if I want to read the new Bourdaine tell-all by Leerhsen. I discovered Bourdain by his article, "Don't Eat Before Reading This", in the New Yorker Magazine in '99 (and it's stuck with me). I like THAT guy. I'm also in the middle of "The Definitive Oral Biography" and enjoying its pacing and collection of voices/anecdotes...That might be enough for me...
Totally agree with Sarah about Bourdain and addiction. When he died I attributed it to his active addiction. Even if it wasn’t directly related -- it was still related.
Another great episode! I enjoy the chit chat at the start. This podcast is a conversation, and the chat at the beginning, for me, suits that tone.
Like Mark, I won't be watching Blonde or reading the new Bourdain bio. They both sound like they're just too much for me at this point - the voyeuristic elements as well as the very sad endings.
I'd read a couple of articles criticizing the abortion scenes in Blonde. Isn't it common to feel ambivalent or sad about getting an abortion? I am sure I would feel that way, and a friend of mine who had one years ago still thinks about it - it was the right thing for her, and that's why she had it, but she told me it's hard not to wonder what might have been.
I may be looking at the wrong photo but when I googled Asia Argentina and busting my balls I got a bunch of her wearing a shirt of man doing what looks like a overhead tricep extension with a barbell. The t-shirt photo is in yellow? I know very little about her reputation so no idea why she’d be wearing this shirt either.
That sounds like the photo. Yes, it's a barbell but it evokes (to me, to Nancy at least) someone whose face is straining so hard he appears to be hanging. Perhaps that interpretation is wrong, but posted right after the NYT story -- it's simply bizarre. -- SH