146. Mike and Milo Pesca on the "Boy Crisis" and Whatever Toxic Masculinity Turns Out To Be

“Boys in crisis.” People write books about it. Melinda Gates just pledged $20 million to study it. Pundits make their bones rolling the phrase around in their mouths. But a crisis according to whom? Who profits when the American Psychological Society claims “traditional masculinity—marked by stoicism, competitiveness, dominance and aggression—is, on the whole, harmful"? And is telling boys they must change, with those changes often determined by women, just another recipe for resentment?

To find out whether boys will be boys, regardless of how often they’re told not be, we went to the source: 17-year-old Milo Pesca, son of the Great Mike Pesca, host of The Gist podcast and broadcaster/thinker extraordinaire.

On the table:

• Milo’s voice is like a warm blanket

• Did Ann Curry draw swastikas in the school bathroom?

• Women and their endless talking

• Sarah’s favorite mispronunciation

• Can anyone define “toxic masculinity”?

• Is vulnerability overrated?

• Babysitter Maggie might have been going through some things

• “I know I’m just a white dude …”

• The land acknowledgment-ing of gender

• “Girls Run the World,” or do they?

• Male role models!

• Watching boys is kind of cool

• If men don’t like to talk, what’s up with those three-hour podcasts?

• Paw Patrol: Threat or menace?!

Also, how lazy idioms affect our thinking, and — stop the presses — Nancy and Sarah disagree on the quality they want in a man. Plus: Four hot boxes!

Correction #1: Nancy mistakenly called George Packer’s new article for the Atlantic “Phoenix is a Vision of America.” It is titled, “The Most American City.” Management regrets the error.

Correction #2: Mike Pesca was talking about the recent Reflector episode by Andy Mills on the anti-drinking drug Naltrexone, but he mistakenly referred to “Lexaprone,” then asked Sarah (sober 14 years today) if this was correct. Sarah couldn’t hear him and just said yes, figuring Pesca is always right. I think we all learned a few things today.

Nancy continues her quiet assault of unflattering screenshots of Sarah. Gotta wake up earlier, Rommelmann. That facial structure can tolerate a sloppy bun.